Bruce Norris is an active investor, hard money lender, and real estate educator with over 35 years experience. Bruce has been involved in more than 2,000 real estate transactions as a buyer, seller, builder, and money partner.
Renowned for his ability to forecast long-term real estate market trends and timing, the release of The California Comeback report in 1997 gained him much notoriety. The accuracy of the extensive report led many California investors to financial freedom. His January 2006 release, The California Crash, was an in-depth look into the California market correction and the statistics behind Bruce’s predictions.
Bruce is also the host of the award-winning series, I Survived Real Estate. The events bring together leaders from numerous real estate sectors to discuss legislation, regulation, stimulus-related issues, and solutions to the current market. The events have also helped raise over $1,000,000 for charity since it began in 2008.
Bruce currently serves on the Executive Board for the Real Estate Research Council of Southern California. He was awarded Educator of the Year by Think Realty in 2018.
Episode:
Narrator This is The Norris Group’s real estate investor radio show the award-winning show dedicated to thought leaders shaping the real estate industry and local experts revealing their insider tips to succeed in an ever -changing real estate market hosted by author, investor, and hard money lender, Bruce Norris.
Joey Romero Hey, everybody, it’s Joey with the Norris group. And welcome to The Norris Group Real Estate radio show and podcast. We’re gonna do a special show today. At the beginning of our last presentation on June 3, we, you know, Bruce, Bruce decided to add a little bit last minute. And it was a great little piece, and it was, I called it, you know, kind of a love letter to our clientele or our investors that have followed us for all the years, You know, it’s just a powerful message, you know, some inspiration. So I thought we should do it for everybody else. So without further ado, why don’t we go ahead and just introduce Mr. Bruce Norris, and we’ll let you go from here. Now. It was kind of funny. I got a chuckle out of you, when you saw the first slide for the presentation and I don’t think you expected it. But, you know, create an opening for yourself, you know, by force if necessary. Yeah, there’s that chuckle again, you know, so, so good. Good morning, Bruce.
Bruce Norris Yeah, that’s kind of what it’s, what it felt like. I think, you know, I guess I have to say, I feel like most people had a path that they pursued and gradually ended up there. For me getting involved in real estate happen, basically, in a day, I had no background in it, no one in my family had a background in it. No one in my family was independently working like a business or on just on commission. So, that was interesting, that I that I had a chance to do that. And the fourth part is, I have found that sometimes you’re not being led in without struggle. And that was the case of Welcome to the business. And then the owner of the business asked me that question, I guess I’ll go from the beginning, I had a chance to go with somebody who thought I might be good at the buying business, for whatever reason, had no real estate experience and no real estate license. But I went with him anyway, because he knew I had a sales background. And we went to a lady’s house that he was going to attempt to buy, we were in there for a very few minutes here and hated her we got kicked out. And when we got back to the car, I sometimes when you just observe things, you see what went wrong. And you know, that could be it could have been corrected. And so I said, you know, I think the lady will sell your house, I think you just upset her about it, knock on the door, get us back in. And so that all happened and we bought that house well, driving home that night. I thought you know what, I think I get this, I think I understand why this has potential. And so back then you could get your license very quick. I took a weekend course got a license. And when applied for this buying position. And the owner, first question, how long have you had your license? My response is one day, and he just laughed. He said, Yeah, this is no place for an experienced agent. And I guess my point is for 99% of the people, that’s the end of the interview. I wanted more than that. I can see this as a life changing thing, which it has turned out to do, obviously. So I said, let me ask you a question. And, and I always say that when I don’t have any idea what the question is, and the best stuff of my entire life has come after that statement. I said, Isn’t the bottom line around here within buy properties for a profit or not? He said, Yeah. I said, You’ll know in 30 days, I could do that better than anybody you have. So that was my first punch through the door, man. Let me in, give me a shot. And 30 days later, I was the best buyer. I had made one years of income in the first 30 days I did it again and again for the first three months. And then I decided I didn’t like how we did business. But if I don’t knock that door open, Joey, you and I aren’t talking today. It’s absolutely true.
Joey Romero Well, not only that, it’s you know, we’re not a you know, The Norris Group has changed the lives of so many people and impacted so many families. You know, that it’s it’s it’s had a far bigger reach that I mean, that door is huge. You know,
Bruce Norris That way that is true.
Joey Romero Yeah, absolutely. You know, because it’s always it’s never been for you about like, how much money can I make? It’s always been like, Hey, I’m doing something I’m good at, and maybe other people can do it too. And it’s never been like I’m going to keep all this knowledge or I’m going to keep all these deals. There’s never been a, there’s always been an abundance mentality. And I think that That’s why so many people follow this, you know, because it’s…
Bruce Norris You know, it’s funny doing what you just said, my best friend Alex Navarro. I taught him the business pretty shortly after, and I bought a used car from him. I mean, that’s this is so accidental. We’re still great friends. And he lives in Florida now. But I just met him when he sold me a car and I just liked him. I said, Do you own a house? No. Don’t hard, show them what to do. Like next week, he bought his house, he was renting. flipped it may 25 grand that was the end of his car business. But, but when I told him, I was going to teach other people, you should have seen the look on his face, you’re going to teach other people this, why would you do that? Not worried about the competition, man. I just think it’s a cool thing to know, you know?
Joey Romero
Yeah, well, and, you know, create an opening for yourself. That’s the very first, you know, thing that you had. But, you know, at the beginning, when you don’t know a lot, and you’re just starting out, you know, the second part of this is, you know, concentrate on a skill that you’re good at, right. And that’s what I think this means, you know, you don’t have the money, you don’t have, you know, a big portfolio. But, you know, if you could find deals, that’s that’s a very valuable, you know, tool.
Bruce Norris It can be a lifetime of that, oddly enough, I mean, Joey, I don’t really know how to fix houses. I mean, I understand the process. And there was a time that I did a lot of estimating and things like that. But I would say this is an honest statement, I’d say the last seven or 800 houses we bought, I never even saw, because I owned a business. That was self sufficient. But the one thing that I could find I could locate deals. And that was the key skill, because everything else is an hourly wage, to be honest with you. So, if I’m gonna hire a contractor or realtor, whatever, if there’s a fee attached to it, the real skill was saying somebody that owns owns a million dollar house, yes, to a 650 number. And it makes all that other possible. So it’s hard for people to imagine, well, how could I get somebody at let’s say, I could sit get somebody to say yes to 650? How would I fund it? That’s the easiest part. The easiest part, you stand in front of an audience at a real estate club and Saturday, know what to do is million dollar deal, I got to tie it up for 650, you will not get out of that building alive about somebody, maybe 10 People going here, here, here, here, here. Because you just proved that you can do the impossible find something wholesale. There’s lots of people that make an effort, and never do it. But the fact that you’ve done it is awesome, because that person knows. Okay, you’re gonna find number 2,3,4. So you’re not having money problems after that.
Joey Romero Yeah. And then that leads to our third, you know, point is, you know, understanding that wholesale offers are accepted every single day.
Bruce Norris Well, and sometimes it makes perfect sense, because, let’s say the property well vacant, okay? Right now, insurance is a big deal. Well, insurance companies, if you’ve got a vacant house for 30 days, it’s no longer insured. I’m sure the owner of that property doesn’t know that. What if you inherit the property? Well, what’s your cost basis, it’s zero. So everything that you get above that, and by the way, maybe it’s from a distance, you don’t know how to fix it, all of those things come into play. And you could just get a check and call it a day. Sometimes owners are frustrated because their relatives are living there for free. That happened a fair amount of times. I’ve had people having businesses that they could have a chance to buy and that was at 73k bootcamp purchase. That was kind of fun. Because that was done live in front, a group of people that had paid to see the business operate in real time. And we were running an ad that we bought houses and the guy called in and the conversation was ballpark, he had 150 grand house, he wanted to sell for 120. And he said, I just need to put carpet in and it’s all good to go. So, try as he might, whoever was in the bootcamp couldn’t get him off that number. And so he hung up, and then I decided I would call back and put it live, you know, on speakerphone, and talk to the owner again, I said, I’m the guy’s partner. And I just curious, why don’t you toss the carpet in and listed? He says, I don’t have time. We’ll see. That was what the first conversation didn’t do is get to the bottom of what was the motivation? Well, time I said, well, in the interest of saving time. You shouldn’t be calling real estate investors trying to sell a 150 house for 120 because the answer will be no 100% of the time. He said Well, what about 100? I said no. And then he and I said why don’t you just listed with an agent? I told you I’ve typed what’s the time that should I have a chance to buy a $500,000 business for 73 grand? I said, so if I walk over with 73 grand today, you good. There was a pause. He said, Yep. Well, that’s when I hung up that fun to eat, the whole room exploded in applause. Because all of a sudden, a guy that was stubborn at 121 273, because I was able to point out, that’s why you made the call, you’re not losing money, you’re not losing 122 to 73, you’re gaining 73 to 500.
Joey Romero And that’s kind of the mentality people have right now, right? They, they think, Oh, I can still get a 50 for that house. Oh, I don’t want to take 800. You know, I could have had a 50 a month ago. But you know, you should have never been at 850, though your house is really worth about 700, you know, so 800 is still a great, you know.
Bruce Norris offer. Yeah, that it’s it’s a good thing when you’re selling not that prices have really taken a big hit. But what has happened is your your euphoric number was in the clouds. So we started building houses at what we thought was a 650. Retail, we probably hit a million at some point, right before we had it for sale. And we were very unlucky that we had to take an offer of 975.
Joey Romero Boohoo.
Bruce Norris So you could concentrate on the 25 grand that you didn’t get, or you could go Wow. I’m a happy camper.
Joey Romero Well, so as you’re as you’re building your career, and now you’re, you know, you’re starting to build this skill set. You know, things start happening in your career. And I always love this story that you that you’ve told at the clubs, and I’m sure you know, people that are listening today have heard it before, but I think it’s impactful to always, you know, remember that you’re sitting across a person. And that’s something that’s always stuck with me that you’ve said, you know, yes. You know, our fourth point is take pride in, you know, in how you do the business, that you’re doing the business.
Bruce Norris Yeah, that was why I left that company. It only took me 90 days to go, man, I it’s not a match. I can make money here. But I hate how you treat people. I hate it. And I’m forced to treat them like that. Because, you know, like, we’re writing offers, they’re gonna net 20 grand. And then the closing happens, they get 16. Three. And I mean, they’re upset. Well, I don’t want to do the deal. Well, the deal was already closed. Now. There’s nothing I can do about it. Every closing. I just said, Yeah, forget about it. And so fortunately, for me, this happened early, within three months, I got a call from a home owner in Garden Grove, I went to see him, you know, made the wholesale offer very unemotional, monotone, that’s fine. And I need this long of an escrow. That’s fine. And I need you to do some work on it. That’s fine. And I never had that before. You know, you’re used to push back or some kind of, and it was nothing. And the hair on my neck went up. I mean, I just thought, wow, this is really weird. I said, You know what, I don’t want to talk to you about your house anymore. Are you okay? And he kind of looked surprised and asked the question. And he said, No, I’m not. I said, Okay. And I had just bought 10 books, called The Greatest Miracle in the World by Og Mandino and I said, Give me a minute, I ran outside and I gave him one. By the way, this is the book. I bought a signed first edition to give to the guy that owns value tainment that I’m going to mail today, by the way. Anyway, so I said, don’t want to talk to you about your house anymore. I want you to read this book. If you won’t read the book, read this chapter. And I’ll see you the morning. So the next morning, I went to go see him he opened his door. He said, I want you to know the book he gave me saved my life. I was going to sell you my house and kill myself. And, man, that sentence has stuck with me with every meeting I’ve ever had ever since. And, you know, he also said and this was very key. He said, I’m still going to sell you my house. What I realized what I need most is a new start. And all of a sudden I was in the New START business. Joey I can’t tell you how impactful that was. That means you look forward to the next meeting. It means you look forward to looking across the table going okay, what’s really up? Can I be, I don’t know what would be the word can I come across? honest enough to where he’ll actually tell me what’s up. I love when a seller used to tell me I don’t why I’m about to tell you this. I haven’t told anybody else this. That’s when I know I’ve got trusted. Now, you know, and I get trusted because I’m trustworthy. That’s the coolest part. That means you liked the business, Joey. That’s, there was nothing more discouraging than having to try and put on the, you know, the attitude that are the owner of that I when I worked for that company in 1980, I, I couldn’t do what he how he treated people. I think I may have told the story at the live seminar, but this is how his company was set up. I went one day I had, I didn’t have anybody call. So I decided I go desk to desk to some realtors. And honestly, one of the first Deathscythe said, Hi, I’m Bruce from Sierra Realty, that guy leaps from his chair and goes to choke me with both hands.
Joey Romero Okay. That before or after your karate?
Bruce Norris Well, I always was into boxing. So that was no problem to avoid that. So I kind of carried it. And I looked at him. I said, Oh, I see. You’ve heard on this. Well, that took him about it. And he says, Yeah, I’ve heard of you. I hate you guys. I said, Man, that sounds like a story. And so what’s up with this? And so he told me the story. And honestly, we bought we bought a house from him. That was that was cool. I said, You know what, when you deal with me, that none of that’s ever going to happen.
Joey Romero You know, two things come up for me when you tell this story is, you know, when I used to do insurance sales, you know, and you would set appointments, you’d get the business owner or whoever was going to set the appointment. And if they didn’t have any objections, you could rest assure that you’re gonna show up to an appointment, and they weren’t going to be there. You know, it’s like, you know, it’s like, I need an objection, because then he’s actually thinking about meeting with me if he’s like, oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, I’ll be here. Sure. Whatever, you might catch them on accident, because I forgot that guy was coming. Exactly. But otherwise, they weren’t, you know.
Bruce Norris And I think.
Joey Romero I think this is this is early on, it probably made you think about what this next slide is about is thinking about what kind of business you want to run, what kind of business model do you want to have?
Bruce Norris Yeah, you know, I think I think most people, you know, they just get in, in the buying mode, which I understand because I was there. And the idea of speaking in front of a club was even, not not part of what I thought my repertoire would ever be. And then Jack Fortin. I went to the meeting, at Jack fortunes club not to go to a real estate meeting, only to listen to a guy that was a mobile home expert, because I had bought five or six mobile home lots in a trade, and I had no idea what to do with him. So that’s why I went. And then he happened to say, in live in front of the audience that anybody who says they can buy properties in California cheap enough to resell them immediately, is lying. And I thought, Wow, that’s crazy. So what I did and so yeah, I thought I was going to be you know, I thought Jack Fulton would like the fact that I waited till the very end of the meeting, to tell him, Mr. Fulton that’s exactly what I do. And he just looked at me like, Yeah, you bet, pal. Have a good night. And it irritated me. So I took pictures of the houses, bunch of houses I had done, send it to him in a book, not for any other reason other than say, you know, it’s true. I didn’t lie to you. And then he calls me back and says, Hey, I want you to speak to my club. I was like, the farthest thing from my mind was speaking to his club. But he said, know what you do is so unusual. You need to teach this and so, alright. And I just had a lot of fun that night. And it turned out in the audience was someone that worked for creative real estate magazine, and he talked to A.D Kessler, A.D Kessler calls me up and said, I hear man you are, you know what you’re doing? You want to write for a magazine. I mean, it was crazy. So that’s the thing, the journey can change very quickly, I went from one accidental speaking engagement to writing for a national magazine to be in on this guy’s TV show, and creating a seminar and then a boot camp and all of that. So all those things are interesting. The the light about the commercial building, I’m going to point that out, because that’s happened to me a couple of times. A great friend of mine, John Stevenson, who was instrumental in me wanting to buy a custom home lot. He inspired me because he had built a custom home and we were, you know, competitors, friends, but competitors. And when he told me that he had built a custom home, and then my wife mentioned, the home that she had just had a Bible study that was really cool. And my male ego kicked in. I said, Well, it’s not as nice as our home because we had a five bedroom home where the college teachers lived. She said, Well, Bruce, it’s a customer well,on my goal list at night was I am walking through my custom home. And by noon the next day I bought thecustom home lot. Now I had never looked for a custom home lot, but I found it in four hours. Well, the same thing was true with this commercial building. I always work from home I didn’t have a company at this time. Alexis McGee was promoting my seminars, and she kept on bugging me. You need to have a commercial building so we can do a bootcamp. Well, finally, at the end of this, I taught in San Diego, and it was Sunday night when I left, so I drove home. When I got home, you know, it was like 11 at night. So I couldn’t make the call. But I had find it found an ads opened up the newspaper and there was a commercial building for sale. I think the ad said something, it was 450, now it’s 300 or something way more than I paid for it. But that’s the phone call I made, I met the owner. And you know, I’m still in the Wholesale Buying business in my head. Now his offer was that he was going to carry whatever the purchase price was at some ridiculous interest rates two or 3%. And I said, Why are you selling the building? He says, I have a partner. We hate each other. We cannot stand each other. I said so for the next 20 years, you’re gonna get payments and split it after contact each other. Why don’t you just take five grand a piece, and call it a day? And he said, You know what? That sounds like a very good idea. So, I bought the building, probably I forget the number exactly. But it was like 10 grand plus what they owed. And I think what they owed was 70 something. And when I actually I wanted to assume the loan because I wanted a credit line with that commercial bank. When I filled out the paperwork. The guy was startled. He said, is the building still there? I said, Why do you ask that? He said the guy just bought the lots for 90 grand three years ago and built a building brand new. I had bought the commercial building for less than the lot costs. And I had looked for it for one night and locked it up before noon the next day. So that’s the importance I think of thinking what else could I do because as soon as you dream it up and start looking for it. It shows up.
Joey Romero You don’t want to one of my favorite stories of you showing up to Jack Phillips is club is talking about the cars that you guys drove.
Bruce Norris Yeah, well, I knew that that you know now I didn’t know Jack Fullerton at the time, but honestly, he didn’t spend money on anything frivolous. So yeah, in the parking lot when I left there were two cars, a brand new Ford 20 SEL, that was mine. And like a Ford Pinto that was falling apart. That was him. And he was already richer than Midas and he looked at my car like what a joke.
Joey Romero Well, you know, do you know what the number one car among millionaires is? Ford Pinto? No, it’s a Ford f150.
Bruce Norris Oh, okay, truck. Yeah, it’s a truck. You know, and I understand, you know, it took me a journey. This is a little embarrassing, but the Ford 420 SEL was definitely for other people to see. I think it’s the only time I ever owned a car where I was happy that you got to see me in it. Isn’t that stupid? But I took one step further. I bought my first cell phone. It wasn’t even hooked up, Joey but I was driving was it at my year. So people could see wow, this guy has a brand new Mercedes and a cell phone.
Joey Romero You’re like a stockbroker or something?
Bruce Norris Yeah, I learned after that. I didn’t. I didn’t want to do that anymore. So that was pretty funny, though.
Joey Romero Well, it’s funny how, you know, small things could lead to the next and the next and the next and the next and that’s kind of what the journey of The Norris Group has been all these years?
Bruce Norris Absolutely. Once the boot camp needed a location, I have a location I was going to use for three days, a month? Okay, what do I do with it? Well, hey, you know, I was borrowing money from Craig Hill at a Vanguard funding. And I asked Craig if he would come over and work with the Norris group instead. And the answer was yes.
Joey Romero Well, and that’s it’s a perfect segue, you know, to your next point is, you know, pay attention to the character of people you know, and that’s, you know, I won’t steal your thunder but you know, that’s always been the most important thing about the Norris Group is doing the right thing.
Bruce Norris Yeah, I mean, that’s you know, I never owned a company so but I but I always have was observant of how people did business and Craig had a we had an incident where I was his biggest customer. I an appraisal came in that was so ridiculously wrong. It was like 100 grand house, the appraisal came in at 65 because I had bought it for 40 or something like that. So the appraiser couldn’t justify how it could possibly be worth 100. If I’m buying it at 40. He hadn’t taken my seminar yet, but so when the appraisal came back, it was so low, I said, Craig, we just ignored that appraisal and do the do the loan, I thought it was going to happen. And Craig, a whole new Craig showed up said, Bruce out for you, or anyone, like push the value of an appraisal. And when I hung up every time, I made a conscious thought way, before I ever had desire to own a company. I thought if I ever owned a company, that will be the first person I hired. And you know, what’s really great about that, you know, how much time I have spent monitoring the, let’s say, the honesty, or the how we do the loan business? Zero. I haven’t done any of that. Because I already know, I already know that Craig is going to make honest decisions. There’s times I’ve probably would have disagreed with some, but there’s that instinct that kicks in. So we just, there was an example where there was a loan that look like pretty reasonable on paper, right? And yet, Craig was really hesitant. He said, there’s just something that bothers me about the conversations that I had with the guy. And, you know, I just said, Hey, you know what, let’s go with your instinct. It’s been right. Sure enough, that turned out to be a fraudulent deal and blew up for the guy that ultimately lent the money to the borrower. It was a fiasco. And you know what, that’s why you deal with honest people, honest people can make mistakes. That’s, but you, you avoid a whole segment of mistakes called intentional. That’s a good thing.
Joey Romero One of the things about our loan company is we, we don’t loan to own, you know, that’s kind of a thing that’s out there, you know, like, oh, well, that’s okay. You can take a risky deal, because if it doesn’t work out, then now you have a property and you can wholesale it, you know, that’s never been our intention, you know, here at The Norris Group.
Bruce Norris No. Well, and that’s, that’s interesting. You bring up a definitely a sore subject, in a sense, because you know, one of the things that you’re, when you’re in the loan business, like we have been, the most important person is the money source that has to have that on automatic pilot. So, we need to call money sources, okay, we have a, we have a house that’s worth this, we need this much money. What we don’t need every time is run them to drive out and take a look at it, and they’re gone on vacation. So I can’t go there for two weeks. They have to learn to make a decision based on the integrity of the company or wouldn’t work, you know. So when you’re in the loan business, it sounds like you know, you really want to make those hard money loans. It’s funny if you ever hear Craig Hill talk on the phone in about five minutes you go. He sounds like an FBI interrogator.
Joey Romero It’s funny you say that, because, you know, I think sometimes I tend to call and I ask the questions, and I hand it off. And I’m like, here’s the deal, Craig. And then he’s like, okay, and he just like, you know, starts asking me questions. And I’m like, oh, what? I didn’t think about that. He’s like, Yeah, you know, I’m trying to get to one thing, too, you know, is this a deal? Or is this a situation?
Bruce Norris Yeah, no, I’ll see. And a lot of times, that’s the thing. What Craig knows is, Okay, what why are we getting the privilege of getting this phone call? Since you’ve been in the business for 10 years? You’re making a phone call here for the first time. Did your other lender pass on this deal?
Joey Romero Yeah.
Bruce Norris Yeah, because it’s got mold. Oh, thank you for telling us that. You know, that type of thing. Yeah.
Joey Romero And he really does protect the lenders like they’re his children almost.
Bruce Norris Oh, well. How’s this for the ultimate compliment? A man that he’s dealt with is dying. His last words to his wife. Just give Craig Hill the money. Wow.
Joey Romero Yeah, that says that all right, there.
Bruce Norris It does.
Joey Romero That’s gonna do it for this week’s episode of The Norris Group, real estate radio show and podcast. Please be sure to join us next week. For part two of our very special interview with Bruce Norris. See you then.
Narrator For more information on hard money, loans and upcoming events with The Norris Group, check out thenorrisgroup.com. For information on passive investing with trust deeds, visit tngtrustdeeds.com.
Aaron Norris The Norris Group originates and services loans in California and Florida under California DRE License 01219911, Florida Mortgage Lender License 1577, and NMLS License 1623669. For more information on hard money lending, go www.thenorrisgroup.com and click the Hard Money tab.