Nema Daghbandan is a Partner with Geraci LLP. His practice encompasses all facets of real estate transactions, primarily representing lenders, brokers, and loan servicers. His practice revolves around the preparation of documents and providing compliance advice to mortgage professionals related to nationwide commercial, residential, construction, and multi-family loan transactions. He also provides advice on documentation related to loan transactions, including servicing agreements, spread agreements, secondary market documents, leases, lien releases, procurement agreements, intercreditor agreements, and subordination agreements.
Mr. Daghbandan also possesses a deep expertise in loss mitigation and advises mortgage professionals in the management of defaulted loans and the remedies available to creditors.
Mr. Daghbandan has been recognized by his peers in the legal community as a Super Lawyers® Rising Star from 2016-2020. Only 2.5% of attorneys receive this distinction. He also received a perfect 10/10 rating from attorney review site AVVO®.
Episode Notes:
Narrator  This is The Norris Group’s real estate investor radio show the award-winning show dedicated to thought leaders shaping the real estate industry and local experts revealing their insider tips to succeed in an ever-changing real estate market hosted by author, investor and hard money lender, Bruce Norris.
Aaron Norris  Hey, everybody back again with Nema with Geraci Law Firm and also AAPL, make sure to check the show notes for sample letters that you can use with your legislators. And let’s get to it. Very cool. I really appreciate that. And I’m going to take over a little bit and I’m going to give you a little bit of nuance on how to play this, and if you ever taken an improv class that there’s a rule and improv. It’s Yes, and you never say no on stage because it shuts the other person down. I’m going to slightly tweak that it’s going to be no but and what I want you guys to do is really focus on SB 9, SB nine is where we’re able to do lot splits in California, or we’re able to basically turn a single-family residence R-1 lot into four units under current ADU Laws, I think there’s a significant opportunity to separate ourselves from Wall Street. But I want you to understand the data that a lot of these legislators are looking at. And I told ATTOM Data this two years ago, they haven’t listened. I emailed them again today. I emailed Oscar and Jordan again today at the California Association of Realtors, telling them like I don’t know anybody who’s separating iBuyers from the data, and let me walk you through what they’re doing wrong. They’re not meaning to it’s just been this way. And so anyway, it ATTOM Data puts out something called the Home Flipper Report, probably a lot of you are signed up for it. They define a home flipper by somebody who non owner occupant who buys and sells something within 12 months. Here’s the problem with that. iBuyers in California, especially last year decided to completely switch gears, they’re not renovating homes for the most part, what they’re doing is they’re buying a house that needs very little work. You’ll notice in most areas, it’s houses that are post 1980. Very similar, you know, square footage, bedroom bathroom, and you’re lucky these days if you get new paint. What’s really interesting is before the webinars with Nema, I found Zillow said on average, they spent around $5,500, I can’t find it now I wonder if they updated the investor letter, but I’ll find it again, open to where is not sharing that information on average how much they spend. But these guys are not flippers. And here’s the problem with that ATTOM Data is actually picking them up as flippers, which is, is not good, because they’re not, they don’t add value, what they’re adding is transactional speed. They’re not doing what investors do, they don’t do the ugly ones. They’re doing the easy ones, which means very little work on the inside very little repairs, and they don’t want to deal with people problems. If you’re, if you use PropertyRadar, I want you to do something very specific. In PropertyRadar, you can actually select location I was, go to the county level, there’s a quick list within PropertyRadar where you can say, hey, I want to look at flippers, and there’s this really cool way in PropertyRadar that actually defines market flip, short sale flip and REO flip. Unfortunately, PropertyRadar also says, hey, look, they’re only looking at six months. And the reason is PropertyRadar said Hey, you can’t flip a house in six months, you must be terrible. And you know, once upon a time, that was really true, true. The problem is lately, we have more ADUs built being built. And we also have supply chain disruption. But I want you to see I pulled this list all, all over California. Hopefully, you can’t see that on the, move that, hopefully you can see my screen I want you to show the over here is the purchase seller and who bought them. I’m just going to scroll through really quick so you can see Zillow purchases who it went to, and I want you to try to spot entities if they’re flipping directly to entities. I see people okay, I see one entity. But for the most part, all the stuff they bought last year, the vast majority is going to owner occupants. So, these guys Zillow, in particular, in this case is being shown up as a flipper when 90% of the time it’s going to an owner occupant eventually, very quickly within typically 60 to 90 days to putting new paint really good vacuum job and they’re putting it back in the market to be sold to an owner occupant. Why? Because they’re making money on every piece of their transaction loan closings, you name it. Okay. Um, another point of if you need fodder for how terrible government is at creating affordable housing. This is want you to notice the, the address lamayor.org and under summary of HHH pipelines, HHH was a $1.2 billion tax that they implemented in 2016. The goal was for them to create 10,000 affordable units, but I want you to look right here I can’t select it, but it says the average total development cost per unit almost $600,000 You’re not reading that incorrectly. I think there’s been a little over 1000 units and five years that have been implemented. And the Turner school has put out some data on 2018 and 2019 ADUs are crushing this, absolutely crushing this, and it’s led by owner occupants. So, if you need an example of local, a Southern California government that is doing a terrible job of creating affordable housing, all you have to do is look at the summary of the HHH fund and the government is actually giving you the data to show them how bad they’re doing. It’s hard, it’s not easy to do in the chat, and I’ll post it on our website is as well. I’ll post this one because this has the three different letters. This was what he was talking about the sample letter for real estate, you’ll see the email has the webinar here, you’ll of course have access to this one. And this is the one that I participated in. Last week, just talking about all the data, Darren Bloomquist is on there from auction.com as well. But I wanted you to get a sense of some, some of where they’re pulling the data from. This is not your meaning. They don’t mean to be terrible. They just are. They’re just not understanding Main Street from Wall Street. If you can do me a favor, provide data to your local market, lead with data. Data is not emotional. It’s just data. And then I want you to, if you flip houses, provide pictures, show them before and after possible. Because some of you guys do hoarder homes, you’re adding accessory dwelling units. And guess what? They have to meet their RHNA numbers. If you’re not familiar with RHNA numbers. Last year, in October, every city within the state of California got their allotment of affordable housing numbers that they have to build the next eight year,s talking to local development professionals, they have to build if they were to do it alone at rates that they’ve only accomplished once for the next eight years. They cannot do it without the private sector. And right now SB 9, which went into effect in January, is not available for investors. SB 10 is however it gives the city an option. SB 9 is where you’re able to basically turn a single family life before, SB 10 is where you’re able to turn like an R-1 lot and the city designates where they want them. But you’re able to create a 10plex plus 2 ADUs and 2 JADUs for a total of 14. So, it’s where they want density. But not all cities are going to play ball. So, if they really want affordable housing, they would give the private sector access to that. We have the skill, we have access to private capital like hard money lenders, like Norris Group. And we know what we’re doing, we can get these done. They don’t have to do this. We can help. So, with that, I’m going to start let’s, if you have questions, go ahead and put them in the chat for me. The first question is investors into opportunity zones, designated areas not exempt. I’ll take this, you only get the full benefit of opportunity zones, if you hold it for 10 years. So, no, it falls outside the guidelines. If you sell it early, you would. Nema, are you thinking the same thing?
Nema Daghbandan  Yeah, that’s correct. I mean, and the other answer to is it’s not exempt otherwise, right. So, there’s not a special exemption for opportunity zones.
Aaron Norris  Would a nonprofit be exempt?
Nema Daghbandan  That’s an interesting question, right? Which is, I assume as much because, can they? That’s a great question. I don’t know, individuals it’s attack. You know, like I this is my lack of knowledge of nonprofits like, what? Do nonprofits filed taxes? I’m sure they do. Right, like, and so like…
Aaron Norris  They do, they might be exempt entities. And the only reason I bring it up is because SB 1079, if you’re not familiar with Califonia SB 1079, is where California is really bad data. To implement a, if you’re buying at auction, somebody can raise your hand, a government entity owner occupant or non a nonprofit can raise your hand in fist within 15 days and buy it for you for one more dollar.
Nema Daghbandan  Yeah.
Aaron Norris  The dirty facts are, there’s some very big companies that opened a nonprofit. Oh, yeah. And they’re pushing the small guy out. So, the very thing that they tried to stop, and again, it wasn’t a winning. They even talked to a legislator trying to get them to understand the data. Yeah, it’s, it’s terrible. Can I buy in an entity and sell the entity and not the property?
Nema Daghbandan  Yeah, you know, so the technical answer is no, because it would it’s sale or transfer, right. And so I think that, that if you were to talk to the Franchise Tax Board on this issue, as well, now you transfer the property, right, regardless of whether you sold it that in that instance, and obviously it’s very hard to track in that situation. So, you know, what, you know, it’s ultimately a question of whether the taxing authority was able to pierce through and understand whether a transfer actually occurred. Hey, if they were able to do that, then yes, they would qualify at that point of the transfer. But again, you know, depends on how disciplined the taxing authorities are going to be in that situation.
Aaron Norris  And the truth of the matter is, from what I’ve seen, you have to take things out of entities. The state of California has been really picky about wanting the underlying people’s name. I’ve seen that quite a bit, so I knew it was going to come up. So, I decided to ask him. Um, and they’re keeping track of this by you have to file the affidavit or something to say that you’re going to live in it right? That, that’s how they’re going to keep track of it somehow.
Nema Daghbandan  Yeah, my assumption is that, that upon sale, there’s a form and the form says, I’ve lived in this property. No, I have to attach. You’ve lived in the property for the preceding seven years or my first property that I ever purchase. And it’s done through at a station on some sort of government form.
Aaron Norris  Okay. Mark is asking how likely is the bill author to amend the bill by exempting owner occupants to make the legislation more appealing to the general public?
Nema Daghbandan  You know, never say never, because I guess, you know, anything can happen with legislation. I can’t imagine a world in which it passes as is right. It’s just too wide. It’s without exempting owner-occupants as a general rule. I can’t imagine a world in which this actually moves forward. And but that is a really good question. But what if you fix that, right? What if because now, it’s just the boogeyman of real estate investors all its leftover, and it’s a much less sympathetic audience. And so the good thing is, at least from a coalition perspective is no one is asking for amendments right now, there is no one is saying is this, this, ‘Yeah, I get this legislation to make sense.’ But it could use a little bit of finessing the current position is, this makes no sense.
Aaron Norris  I’m trying to think, I’m trying to think of amendments midweek and promote like, okay, maybe 10% of the sales price has to be put into repairs into the property to account. To your point, what is an investor? I don’t consider iBuyers at this point in investor, because they, they’re not putting money back into the property. I don’t know, I we’re not funding any loans as an example, where the investor is only putting in $5,000. A good vacuum job and some new polls and some cabinets.
Nema Daghbandan  I mean, this is, this is the interesting, first step that’s actually been on the right path or on a better path recently, right. We’ve seen this, loosen attention. You know, this happened in New York recently, where they tried to do the exact same thing, this flip tax, liens. States are terrible copycats, but another, it died in New York, that it did not move, which is great. And hopefully, it doesn’t do anything here either. But, but you know, and similarly, as I was there, you know, ancillary stores I was in Florida for a while was effectively mortgage lender licensing issue, but the crux of it, and the reason why we became eligible is they were passing it for their affordable housing legislation. But if you went to Florida, what they did there was brilliant, they basically says, I don’t care about the county’s rules related to the permitting process, the state is going to mandate to the counties, the maximum time period, you have to, to either deny the permit or to you know, to, to offer a manager, and in his took, they took the control out of the county’s hands, right. And so, that sounds like a great idea to me, like there’s many things we could do. And so it’s the, you know, you can do a tax credit, there’s lots of things that would actually, if the goal is more housing, and more affordable housing, there are other ways to get there. Generally speaking, the government spending money doesn’t do it., right. That’s, as you’ve already demonstrated, the few case examples we have where, and California has money, we have, you know, whatever it is right now $40 billion surplus, we got plenty of money to try to build houses. But no one’s trying to build houses. That’s not what, that’s not what the government is good at doing right?
Aaron Norris  They could have turned that, that HHH fund into like a credit line for ADUs for owner occupants, I don’t care. They made money…
Nema Daghbandan  You want to build affordable housing, and we’ll give you a 1% line. That’s a lot of ways to do you know what I mean? Like…
Aaron Norris  Yeah.
Nema Daghbandan  Give them a reason to build it. Give them a reason to build it, right. That’s what they’re looking for.
Aaron Norris  Yeah, I just think it’s such a huge opportunity for investors to say no against this one, but to bring up SB 9 and to make it affordable. And you can’t take anything for granted the this stuff if we don’t say anything, if we don’t educate our legislators it can go through. And I think for the most part data is a very non emotional way to do it. And a great way to do it. And it’s visual too if you armed them with the data and visuals, you’re doing their job for them. Nobody else is going to come up with that. And I’ve already shown you the data that they’re likely pulling from. I did check with Darren, he used to work for ATTOM Data. I emailed Rick Sharga as well. And Mike is still how you’re doing it. But I just showed you on ATTOM Data, what they’re considering a flip. So, we know that’s typically the most quoted data source when it comes to investors. I’ll see what the car comes back with because they, they might be looking at only all cash deals. But even iBuyers have a huge line of credit. So, I don’t know how they’re separating that. But I the problem with including iBuyers too is it messes up the average profit and it messes up the holding times big time. So, investors if they’re taking over a certain amount of time, they’re not showing up on the list, iBuyers will more often, which is just a shame. And unfortunately, Zillow just announced that they’re they sent 2000 properties to Pretium. When they close shop, when they’re closing down the Zillow Offers, 2000 went to them. And this drives me nuts. So, the way that the national media covers this, and iBuyers almost seem more than happy to let them do it as they’re like, Oh, we’re only 2% of the market. No, you’re not in every market. And you’re not in every pie box. You’re in, I think, Openedoor’s in 41 markets at this point, but they’re in a very particular buying arena, you know, FHA and under, for the most part, so when they’re buying that those are houses that millennials will never get a chance to own. So, we’re blocking a very specific category of buyers out of homeownership, which is not great. So, and builders are not building for the most part in that range, because it’s not as profitable. Yeah. So, anyway, any other questions for Nema about this? Trying to think of if there’s any questions, I haven’t thought of that keep coming up.
Joey Romero  Aaron, can ask question?
Aaron Norris 16:06Sure.
Joey Romero  So ,what is the goal of what we’re doing today, activating them to do what? Is it really to, you know, be at the table of affordable housing, or is just hey, let’s, let’s find a way to kill this bill, because it’s just going to hurt everybody. Because if they were really serious about affordable housing, they would do a lot of things about, you know, the barriers too, you know, make things pencil, right. So, what are we asking, you know, the people on this call, people are gonna listen to the radio, what is it truly that we want to happen,
Aaron Norris  I would love to see more investors in general, be activated. I mean, not all investors, especially Mom and Pop belong to a local, they don’t belong to CAR, maybe they don’t have a license, meaning they’re not a private lender, so they don’t belong to the California Mortgage Association. Maybe they don’t belong to the Builder Association, because they’re just, they’re not doing enough volume. The truth is, these organizations take a lot of the heat, and they spend a lot of money educating our, our legislators, but we can do that, too. We don’t have to be a member of anything, we just have to know in matters. And we have to show up, when you’re not at the table, you’re on the table. And this definitely affects you. And at the same time, your legislators should start to learn to trust you as the local expert, they should, you know, why not show off your work, show that hoarder house the worst houses in the neighborhood, you turned around into something wonderful. And let them know, Hey, you’re interested in building and the play ball with SB 9, you just right now you don’t have the opportunity, because it does not include you. SB 9 by the way, it doesn’t mean, the state has set the guidelines, but it doesn’t mean that localities can’t play ball and make exemptions for you. So, the state is one that sets the bar, but the local localities are the ones that are deciding which rules play for you.
Nema Daghbandan  And if I could jump on that, too. I mean, it’s, it’s very, it’s a steep point, which is that the the legislators are expecting the trade associations to get involved. And that’s great. And they have a voice and they particularly have a great data voice. Right is hey, let me help you. Let me just educate you. And that’s really the primary role of trade associations, I good intentions, but let me educate you on results. And that’s fine, has a role to play. When we were in Florida, and, and an issue came up for mortgage lender licensing, you would think that the person should should be speaking with the mortgage lender? Not at all, we had the local reassure, and the local reassure and the guys were trying to say, look, I cannot obtain bank financing. It does not exist for this asset. Right? So, you’re putting me and my crew out of work. That’s what you’re gonna do. That’s your, that’s what you’re gonna do. So, you think you’re harming what you think is predatory lender, that predatory lender is the only guy who’s going to give me a loan, right. And it was just this lightbulb that occurred in front because this was happening in committee. And they were standing up there one on one explaining their personal experience. And you just saw it finally clicked going, oh, like, that’s who’s being hurt. And I think that’s what you’re really seeing in this situation as well, which is a real estate investor is just this thought in their head of what that person is, right? It’s greedy landlord who’s kicking out tenants all day, right? That’s the one thing that’s all they know about you is you’re kicking out tenants, right? And trying to get in, it’s dispelling that myth, right? And I think that the more that is just, oh, I, you, I now get a rumor. One day health insurance, the next day real estate the next day, you know, whatever the issue of the day is, that’s what they’re talking about. And so if you can help them understand, because they don’t understand real estate, at all.
Aaron Norris  Yeah.
Nema Daghbandan  If they did. They wouldn’t propose this. That’s what we’re saying. So, if you can actually help explain the role of the real estate investor and how this actually benefits, um, you know, your, your voice is much more compelling than the trade association.
Aaron Norris  I, I’m part of something then an affordable Housing Coalition that’s going through the Council of Governments put together SCAG. And I believe in Southern California, it’s everybody but San Diego. So, there’s a course that 40 of us out of 400 were selected to go through this course. I’m one of two private sector, individuals and last Monday, we had our session, and they brought up this issue. And I’m like, Guys, I’m going to tell you now I’m going to beat you guys up. I’m all the data is wrong. This is how wrong and she shared a Washington Post article. Washington Post did not source their data. Um, I don’t know where they’re pulling from, but I bet you anything I know where they did. And if so, this is how we’re doing it, they’re doing it. And here’s why it’s wrong. And they had never heard that before. I was like, ‘When is the last time as an example, in Riverside, I pulled this data because I was part of another Housing Coalition. Because I’m a nerd out here. And I was like, okay, when’s the last time you’ve talked to landlords about what you want? About what’s possible?’ And like, ‘Well, we haven’t’ I’m like, ‘Exactly,’ they already own inventory. Have you told them that you want ADUs? Have you talked to landlords with lots over 10,000 square feet, that could clearly fit an ADU? Of course, you haven’t? Guess, I think the average circulation of the press enterprise is something around 100,000. We’re not like Palm Springs, or San Diego or LA, we’re a secondary beauty market, we don’t matter. I guess, the problem is that the majority of landlords, you know, a huge portion of landlords live out of the county, so they’re not paying attention. So, unless you mail them something, or they happen to be a subscriber to the Orange County Register, or the press enterprise. Third, we’re gonna hear it. So, who would you also start letting them know like, you’re already creating this letter, sample of your work, some pictures, who else would you send it to that you think would be impactful in government?
Nema Daghbandan  Yeah, here’s what I was saying, the interesting thing is, if I hate what I do, meaning I hate, my job primarily is reacting to legislation, right? That’s really, it. It’s the most annoying thing because it’s like, it’s your it’s a fire drill every time and you’re fighting. And it’s so hard to do well, right. And I you know, that’s awesome. I saw, you know, in the chat box here is one of the people here, right. Like, I think the challenge thing is so many people can be very political in their approach this it’s not a politics issue at all, like, truly, I truly believe Assemblymember Ward is doing the right thing in his own eyes. I don’t think that’s an ounce of ill will here.
Aaron Norris  Agree.
Nema Daghbandan  I think he’s got he is he was elected to try to help people and he thinks he’s helping people. That’s it. And so, um, the, it’s really getting more involved in general with local politics, right? As silly as it seems like, this is what happens when you’re in a vacuum. And no one knows, like, this is the stuff that comes out of it. And so I think it’s even if you’re not an assembly member in our district is having conversation be like, hey, like, I just want to dismiss off, like, I’ve noticed that there’s a you know, I think California’s got a really big housing affordability problem. What are your thoughts, right? Like, I’d love to talk to you about it, cuz I’m an in real estate, I would love to give you some ideas and like some things that California’s done really well. And I think there’s some things that might be able to help you a little bit. Any sort of, of connection at that level. Really will, you know, the big picture of this thing is, is what is ProAct? You know, what’s another SB 9 that we could do whatever improvements that we can do, or maybe tax credits or other things we could do that would actually generate real inventory and help right that’s, that’s the, that’s that love to see. Right?
Aaron Norris  Yeah. And they’re motivated they need to I didn’t explain this what happens if they don’t meet their their RHNA numbers in the next eight years at the state can takeover which has never happened before, but the state can take over planning departments and just say you are not getting that done. So, we’re gonna do it for you. And then you lose complete local control. But they also lose access to funding for transportation, CDBG funds, which go to nonprofits that help a lot of support local projects, fordable housing projects, you don’t want to lose that money. So, they’re motivated to work with you. But we need we we need each other to really show up some of the places that I think can show up everyone smile. You can show up at council meetings at the local level.
Nema Daghbandan  Yes.
Aaron Norris  And share your ideas. You can show up as a local chamber and start to get known as you know, let people know what you do. You don’t have to show up all the time. If you’re in an area that’s county driven, and a lot of money lands of the county, so show up your county version of council meetings and let them know what you’re doing for affordable housing and building ADUs and it never hurts to show up and tell them about timelines like let them know how they’re doing. When it comes to build permits or turnaround time, with under ADU law, they’re supposed to be hitting a 60 day maximum timeline or it’s considered approved. I don’t necessarily go for that strategy. They can make your life very difficult. Don’t want to play ball that way. But that’s definitely something. My council member asked me last year like what do I tell my constituents about ADUs? I’m all it’s out of your control. You don’t have any say so and the state regulated and sorry.
Nema Daghbandan  Aaron you, you’re you’ve led the fight on call Yimby right? Like there’s to like a philosophical shift that kind of needs to happen here, right? Like that’s, that’s the real challenge we’re ultimately facing here. I mean, I live in Mission Viejo and like, I’m getting flyers right now because like, oh my god, they’re planning on developing some, you know, real estate in this dilapidated, like, shopping centers. That is just, you know, an eyesore, candidly, I don’t like guys like, there are giant for the love of God, let someone move here. This is crazy. This is crazy. This cannot be forever. We have to, at some point recognize that people should be able to live in this place. And if, if you don’t, you’re not gonna be able to be there, right? Like this is gonna be a weird place. If we continue to let status quo occur it already is.
Joey Romero  Aaron. Somebody asked, what would Assembly Member Ward’s district is, its coastal San Diego from Solana Beach to Mexico. And including parts of downtown.
Aaron Norris  San Diego is one of the most cutting edge. I didn’t create YIMBY, by the way, there’s a whole club of yes, in my backyard. But there’s a big movement around ADUs. And I think we should really be pushing SB 9, because it’s such a creative way to get more inventory. But anyway, any other questions for Nema while, we got him on the phone, I know we’re, I’ve, I’ve run out my clock and I’m not paying for your time, I feel so bad. And I, and I just want to thank you for your time too. I know you, you’ve worked so hard, and I don’t think people know some of the things that you’ve helped stopped including in MLS, NMLS rules in Florida, I got my NMLS license thinking that you are going to have to in Florida or you couldn’t do hard money out there. You were instrumental in getting that stop. So, it’s, it’s everyday folks leading with data leading with visuals understanding what you do, and you become the trusted. And that’s how you play the game. And, again, I don’t think any of this is real meaning it’s just, you know, you’ve got a, an intern that pulls bad data when it came to SB 1079. The one with the trustee sale, the redemption period, they were using, they were comparing California to, I forgot if it was Detroit, or it was some some city that was losing population for the past 50 years, and they use their TARP money to tear down houses, California really has never done that. And as of two years ago, they were still spending some of that money tearing down houses. So, it was completely inappropriate. But unless they have somebody that they trust that’s presenting that data didn’t go with the intern. So, when you’re not at the table, you’re on the table, you know, where can people find out more about you, and the law firm?
Nema Daghbandan  Sure, appreciate that. You know, the on LinkedIn, probably primarily from a social media perspective. And so you can look at my name as easiest way to probably grab a hold of me there. Alternatively, you know, we’ve got our website, we’ve got Geraci, and my, my name here, so GeraciLLP.com. I work at GeraciLawfirm.com, you know, I would be happy to chat with anybody after the fact, particularly for people to want to get mobilized. And that’s really a good way to get plugged in and loved to be a part of it. Any person. Like I said, if you have a, an ability to get a meeting with Assemblymember Ward, I’d love to get a group of people going down to the for that. That is the you know, winning heart in mind is the ultimate battle. And if we can do that, then you know, you’ve really, you know, helped out a lot of people.
Aaron Norris  There are a lot of people on this call that were from the San Diego market. So, if you need to connect, I will, I will definitely I’ll have them reach out but let me know.
Nema Daghbandan  Thank you.
Aaron Norris  Nema, really appreciate it. Thank you so much for joining us.
Nema Daghbandan  Take care Aaron.
Aaron Norris  Okay, bye. Bye, everybody. What can we do to stop this? Well, I posted the link to AAPL online, they’ve got all the letters, you can help spread the word then there’s three different letters on there. There’s the, let’s see, there’s a homeowner letter, a real estate investor letter and a lender letter. So, if you fall into one of those many letters, you know, however many you fall under, send a different letter. I don’t know. All right. Have a good one, everybody.
Narrator  For more information on hard money, loans and upcoming events with The Norris Group, check out thenorrisgroup.com. For information on passive investing with trust deeds, visit tngtrustdeeds.com.
Aaron Norris  The Norris Group originates and services loans in California and Florida under California DRE License 01219911, Florida Mortgage Lender License 1577, and NMLS License 1623669. For more information on hard money lending, go www.thenorrisgroup.com and click the Hard Money tab.