Paul serves as an advocate for REALTORS® and their clients on local issues, helping to preserve and protect property rights and the value of homeownership. Working with colleagues at the California Association of REALTORS® and the National Association of REALTORS®, Paul helps members make a difference for their clients at the local, state and federal levels.
His unique experience includes an award-winning journalism career with newspapers in Florida and California where he covered real estate, small business, the aviation business and the confluence of government policy, politics and business. His coverage of real estate and growth in Florida earned him top honors from the Florida Press Club in 2002.
In 2004, he won first place for in depth business writing from the California Newspaper Publishers Association. After journalism, Paul served as communications director for the San Bernardino County Economic Development Agency, coordinating everything from press outreach to speeches and video production. In four years with the agency, he oversaw external communications, managed a communications team and helped publicly position a variety of projects and initiatives.
The combination of mass media experience, local expertise, policy and political background and understanding of real estate issues prepared him to lead IVAR’s government affairs and communications efforts through coalition building, strong messaging and technical understanding.
Paul earned his Bachelor’s of Journalism degree from the University of Missouri-Columbia.
Episode Notes:
Narrator  This is The Norris Group’s real estate investor radio show, the award-winning show dedicated to thought leaders shaping the real estate industry and local experts revealing their insider tips to succeed in an ever-changing real estate market hosted by author, investor and hard money lender, Bruce Norris. The Norris Group proudly presents our 14th annual award winning event I Survived Real Estate industry experts join Bruce and Aaron Norris to discuss evolving industry trends, real estate bubbles, inflation and opportunities emerging for real estate professionals. All proceeds from the event benefit Make-a-Wish and St. Jude Children’s Research Hospital.
Bruce Norris  Hi thanks for joining us, my name is Bruce Norris and today our special guest is Paul Herrera. Paul serves as an advocate for realtors and their clients on local issues, helping to preserve and protect property rights and value of homeownership. Working with colleagues at the California Association of Realtors and the National Association of Realtors, Paul helps members make a difference for their clients at a local state and federal level. The combination of mass media experience local experience, policy and political background and understanding of real estate issues prepared him to lead IVAR’s government affairs and communication efforts through coalition building, strong messaging, and technical understanding. Thank you so much for joining us again, Paul. And welcome back. You know, what’s interesting about what you said, affordable housing, so 10 years ago, when the foreclosure crisis happened, so affordable, affordable housing doesn’t have to be built from scratch, sometimes it exists in the marketplace. And so at the time, when we had, you know, the panel that we had was the top person, it’s a mortgage collaborative and Fannie Mae and so forth, have nothing down loan program. This house it was 400 grand is 100 grand, how many lives would have been changed and just ‘Okay, here, you get a 4% mortgage and 100 grand house,’ that’s affordable housing, we didn’t have to lose any money on it didn’t have to be tax subsidized. The marketplace presented it and because we didn’t do that wall street came in and bought hundreds of 1000s of them.
Paul Herrera  Yeah.
Bruce Norris  You know, so and but we do have affordable housing in a sense of interest rates. So, once again, and I literally This was probably two or three months ago, I was invited to speak to the president of Fannie Mae, on a one on one meeting with with Doug Duncan. And that was still the discussion. Because, yes, you have expensive home prices, but you have world record low interest rates. So, it’s worth the risk to get somebody to own a home because it’s, it’s also a societal issue where they, they feel like they’re part of the system. They’ve got some of the goodies, their payments going to equity build, and they actually know they’re going to stay there. And all those things matter to a society, you know. So, I guess sometimes, maybe it’s too late in the cycle, because the price is too crazy. But there’ll be another cycle. And we we ought to take some lessons that we we didn’t take advantage of and go Okay, well, now I see it again. let’s implement that. Because it’s pretty, it’s pretty hard when people don’t have a choice. I can’t, I can’t afford rent and I can’t buy, real I do.
Paul Herrera  Right. Yeah, because 10 years ago, you couldn’t get a mortgage. And you have a lot of, a lot of individuals. Well, a lot of people who had jobs, but let go of a house because you know, their house went down value by 50%. And decided. I’m just gonna let some go. You lock people out of the market.
Bruce Norris  Well, there’s another way to solve that. And we did it in the 80s. Again, this was another meeting in Washington, DC sitting in front of the top person in Fannie Mae and FHA. I said, ‘How about you just let everybody take over the loan subject too?’ In other words, they’re not they’re qualified, they send you a $45 check. And they say Paul Herra’s name’s on the loan. Bruce Norris is buying it. Here’s 45 bucks, Paul Herrera’s off the liability and I buy it done. I don’t have to qualify for anything. I just make the payment until I don’t and someone else takes my place. Instead, you have all these foreclosures, there are some states that had a bunch of foreclosures. That didn’t have to happen. Texas was one of them. Texas Homes didn’t really go up. You know, we were 1031 exchanging from California in 2006, to brand new brick houses at 100 and quarter in Texas. So, they didn’t have a foreclosure crisis. But even the ones that went in foreclosure, they should have just been able to walk to another owner without ever reaching a foreclosure process. So, I think that’s you know, it’s interesting and I’m sure this happens because you’re sort of, you’re sort of in a unique blend, I would think in the legislature world is that you have some practical experience and other, and other you know, like the real estate people you know, you get a lot of have input on what’s maybe a good option we’re not implementing. And I don’t know how, how receptive they are to things that actually would work, just because they haven’t heard of them, you know.
Paul Herrera  You know, our organization is actually pretty unique in the capital, as well as in Congress and at the local level. Because we don’t ask for a whole lot, you know, most most groups that, that have representation, you know, lobbyists that are walking around in the state capitol, they’re asking for a bunch of money in one form or another. We’re not, I’ve never gone to any lawmaker to a level and said, ‘Hey, can you pass this bill that’s going to appropriate this many hundreds of millions of dollars to our members in this way?’ I, that’s not a question we’ve ever asked. Almost everything that we asked for is, ‘Can we do something to make it easier for people to qualify for a loan? For people be able to build housing so that we have it for sale? For people to be able to function in a more frictionless way, so that it’s easier to be a homeowner enjoy property rights and transact?’ That tends to be a little bit of a problem solving. But I’ll give an example right now, we’re kind of in the middle between the insurance commissioner and the insurance industry on fire insurance of California.
Bruce Norris  Right.
Paul Herrera  Fire insurance is becoming a crisis level in any community where you have fire risk, which includes a lot of Foothill areas that are more urbanized areas, as you would imagine, in Riverside, there are people who are getting policy cancellation notices who are by the river bed, you know, that’s this is not an area that just burns like a forest, but it is happening everywhere. And so, you have an insurance commissioner who wants to crack down on the industry says, you know, if you’re not gonna offer fire insurance, that you can just take your auto insurance, home, insurance, everything else and walk around the state, you have insurance industry that says, we’re not going to give you access to the data and the things that we’ve got, we’re going to keep a black box over everything. And you know, what, you figured out how you’re going to offer insurance, and where the middle saying, guys, guys, guys, we need people to be able to afford insurance, so they can own a house. So, they get a mortgage, so they can refinance a mortgage, we just needed to work, we don’t, you know, we understand there’s challenges, let’s work through those, it’s not good enough to have, you know, a Side A, Side B for the benefit of Twitter followers or whatever, you know.
Bruce Norris  Resolvers.
Paul Herrera  He’s got to solve the problem. And so, that is our role where we try to be problem solvers on let’s be real, about how this affects, you know, middle income average individuals who are just trying to live their lives.
Bruce Norris  What effect do you see 3D printed housing, have in the next five or 10 years?
Paul Herrera  You know, it’s really hard to say for me, because when you look at any legislation that moves around the state of California, that affects the building of homes, the trades get very deeply involved.
Bruce Norris  Okay.
Paul Herrera  And they are very defensive of anything that might lower the need for skilled trades people, or their ability to get prevailing wage or, you know, very strong wages in the state of California. I haven’t seen to what extent they will engage on something like 3D printed housing, in order to avoid the reduction in labor costs. But they’ve engaged in everything else. And they’re very, very, very, very powerful voice in the state of California. So, if it’s something that they decide they’re not that interested in, then 3D printed houses would at least significantly reduce one of the major cost centers, which is the cost of labor, not just the cost of labor, but the availability of labor. So, in the state of California, it’s not everything, obviously, cuz you still have to put the house in place, you start to do certain things. But it would use some of that. You still have to put the house someplace. And citing the land and getting approval to do so is not easy. So, are we going to solve that problem?
Bruce Norris There, is there? Well, is there even the will to solve that? I had an interesting conversation with a lady that used to watch our dogs, and she graduated from college. She said, I won’t be able to watch your dogs this weekend. I have an assignment. What’s your assignment? Well, I take a lawn chair out, and this was sort of in the middle of nowhere, maybe 29 time, 29 palms look like, a look alike with a high powered binocular. And her whole job for the weekend was to see if she could see anything move and had a very high tech camera. So, she could take a picture of something that would stop the development. That was her job.
Paul Herrera  Yeah.
Bruce Norris  So, wow. She no longer watch my dogs, by the way.
Paul Herrera  Yeah, I mean, we have to find a way to reform Sequa, we have to find a way to make it easier to build. And I don’t know what that path is, you know, because the California Government Equality Act when it comes to housing development isn’t used primarily to protect the environment?
Bruce Norris  No.
Paul Herrera  It’s primarily to stop development or to, to negotiate other things. Right? See, negotiate a, hey, we’ll look in the way on whatever it is this is, you know, we’re concerned about the noise created that has no drive away, whatever creature we’re talking about. But we’ll stop being concerned if you, you know, put half a million dollars into our trust account. Mostly face legal bills for the attorney, right. Or if you agree to the labor contract, that the project labor agreement that we’re putting forward. That I wish was not a thing that was happening, but it is.
Bruce Norris  When you go around the states and speak you meet up with some bits of information from different areas and laws that passed. And, you know, that was one of the you know, we had the legislation panel that you were on, we had tried to figure out okay, how are laws passed? I really curious about the process, because some of them seem dedicated to not honoring property owners rights, but honoring occupant rights. And that’s, that’s a troubling thing in California, if, if I have somebody that arbitrarily moves into my house, that I have a vacant house, and I’m having it painted. And the next thing I know somebody changed the lock, and they’re there, that that journey is very different in Florida than it is in California.
Paul Herrera  Well, you, you recall that we had a real problem with that. When, when the market crash took place, you had all these vacant houses. And people have a number of ways. You know, one was people created fake leases.
Bruce Norris  Sure.
Paul Herrera  Making houses, and…
Bruce Norris  That’s me, I’ve seen them.
Paul Herrera  Yeah, police would come out and say, hey, you’re supposed to be here, and it’s showing the lease. And please don’t say, Well, I don’t, I can arbitrate this. So, you got to go to do…
Bruce Norris  Yeah and that’s a civil matter.
Paul Herrera  Yeah. Now, we got a lot of cooperation on that, and particularly Riverside, and San Bernardino County. And so, we were able to address a lot of that. So, there was more streamlined other areas. I don’t know how it worked in LA, for instance. I know they weren’t fantastic. But they got a lot better as, as time went on. During that, that downturn, to where they did respond much faster.
Bruce Norris  When you say responded quicker, did they still have the right to make a decision to say that’s not a real rental contract?
Paul Herrera  Uh, not on the spot, but the action happened much faster.
Bruce Norris  Okay.
Paul Herrera  To where they, as a property owner, you could show them documentation that would end up much faster than it would in the past.
Bruce Norris  Okay.
Paul Herrera  I’m not exactly sure what that is, where that is right now. I mean, I got a, I got a call about a month ago about a property in Reno Valley, where the seller sold the property. And then their purchase fell through it was a contingent, and they said, hey, guess what we’re not leaving, even though it’s recorded. And so, they tried to call the sheriff’s office, the sheriff said, we don’t know what to do here. They said, well, they have no Valley’s agreement. There’s no lease of any kind. They’re just refusing to leave. And that I actually don’t know what the outcome was. Last time I spoke with the broker involved, they were looks like they had to go to eviction court or to deal with it. You know, California does favor. Certainly somebody who initially introduced property under legal circumstances, even if those legal circumstances no longer exist.
Bruce Norris  That would that, that probably would be sort of the case in point, let’s say of a foreclosed property with an occupant that is a carry over owner that lost the house. So, yeah, yeah, the journey if you have a business model of buying foreclosures and trustee sales, and you have an attorney that just says, oh, boy, this is gonna be fun. Let’s, let’s do everything we can in the book. Literally a year later and 50 grand happens to get them out.
Paul Herrera  Yeah, and it’s a, it’s a world that you’re seeing rental owners have to enter into much more so right now than it did in the past.
Bruce Norris  Your…
Paul Herrera  The costs are much higher. One of the challenges with, say the eviction moratorium is, you look at the legislation, the legislation makes sense, until it starts being implemented, and you run into problems. So, legislations on the eviction moratorium in California says that if you qualify, you’ve been impacted by COVID.
Bruce Norris  Right.
Paul Herrera  Then you’re protected by the eviction moratorium, in which case, you should also be eligible for the money, which makes your landlord whole. So, therefore, you’re not staying for free. You’re, you’re, the government’s paying, paying your loan.
Bruce Norris  Right.
Paul Herrera  And if you, if you don’t qualify, then you’re not protected by the eviction moratorium. But because of the gray areas, which you wouldn’t think exist, you get a lot of, you know, none of box A, or none of box B. But the bottom line is this property where the owner needs the money is producing no revenue. No, there’s no rent coming in. Because there’s always gaps that form once this goes into a court system, or even a backup court system where, you know, you’re getting a court date for months.
Bruce Norris  Exactly. Yeah. Well, that’s, I, people asked me all the time, you know, why are you in Florida and I and that was one of the main reasons that I think Florida respects ownership rights more than occupancy, right. And we just had more than a few large checks chasing what was rightfully ours. And that was impeded by the process of saying, ‘Well, you know, that’s in doubt’.
Paul Herrera  Yeah, it’s, I don’t know how to how to manage this debate right now. Because I think fundamentally, the thought of California lawmakers on the left, the left has a very complicated relationship right now with housing. And one of those complications is that I think it fundamentally believes that, that group fundamentally believes that housing should not be a business, housing should not be a profit center.
Bruce Norris  That’s scary.
Paul Herrera  And when you start from that point of view, but at the same time, they want private developers to out of their own pocket build housing, that people can afford, right?
Bruce Norris  Exactly.
Paul Herrera  So, how do we do this? You know, because I do it when we talk about market forces and business forces, the, the conversation doesn’t go much further, because of this disdain for the idea that housing is a business.
Bruce Norris  Well, it’s interesting, again, when you speak somewhere, that you don’t live. And I’m trying to think of the city it was, but I was up up Northern California. And I got told that there was a law that was passed there that if you had a vacant lot, that you didn’t use, then you were fined $6,000 a year? I think it’s Oakland. So, literally, if you have a vacant lot, in addition to your property tax, you get a $6,000 fine for not using it, not building on it. And and just how in the heck did that come about? And then I thought to my, to my own inventory, I have some lots that I’ve had for a long time in the Quail Valley that don’t, don’t work in the in the area doesn’t have sewers. So, it’s just hold the world together until they have sewers, what’s there now in process, but if you were to charge me 30 grand a year to keep those five lots? I just said, ‘Hey, they’re yours.’ And that’s when it hit me. Oh, my gosh, is that the goal is to take the dirt, so the city or county has it so they can do affordable housing that just that just felt really bad to me.
Paul Herrera  I’m not sure it’s that thought out. So, when people start putting together the policies into a coherent master plan that, that goes into an actual outcome.
Bruce Norris  Yeah
Paul Herrera  That’s where I tend to say that I think you’re giving them more credit.
Bruce Norris  Okay, they just wanted to see if they could pay six grand? I guess.
Paul Herrera  They, they look at the start point and end point of this particular policy quite often, in absence of what incentives are created by this policy. Just we want people to build on lots, how to get people to build on lot. Let’s find them for not building on lots.
Bruce Norris  Is there a room that these meetings are held? I’d love to just have…
Paul Herrera  Yeah, you can actually log on to the legislature right now. And watch their, their hearings on some of these bills, even some of the replays I was watching one yesterday in which a lawmaker they were talking about grant funding for affordable housing. And the lawmaker asked how much, how much more is our labor costing because we apply prevailing wage to all these projects. And how much more housing could we build, if we get lower labor costs? And they refuse to answer the question. They said, that’s a hypothetical question.
Bruce Norris  Wow.
Paul Herrera  No hypotheticals, like your labor cost on project is a hypothetical question.
Bruce Norris  Wow.
Paul Herrera  Of course, it’s not. I mean, it isn’t California, because they’re not going to pass the legislation without the prevailing wage requirement. So, it is hypothetical, in the state of California.
Bruce Norris  Right.
Paul Herrera  But the idea that you don’t study, the cost of any factor that is major input to the productions with the that you’re asking for and paying for is not hypothetical.
Bruce Norris  Oh, that’s a, that’s a, that’s a very interesting comment and pretty telling, that’s for sure.
Paul Herrera  But you get you get a lot of this in these discussions. I mean, well, I’m in a, I’m on a working group right now in a city. And we’re the early stages of trying to figure out building decarbonisation, which is something that’s going to happen, which means basically, you shut off the gas at some point, you know, that they want new buildings not have gas, they want everything electrified. So, that can be powered off sustainable energy.
Bruce Norris  So, okay, sustainable energy, as in…
Paul Herrera  Solar, wind, geothermal, you know, things that don’t burn fossil fuels.
Bruce Norris  Okay…
Paul Herrera  So eventually…
Bruce Norris  Is that possible?
Paul Herrera  Under reality? No.
Bruce Norris  Okay. Okay.
Paul Herrera  Long term it’s worked out for is going to go I mean, decarbonisation, is will happen to California. The timeline is the only thing in question.
Bruce Norris  All right.
Paul Herrera  So, it requires a lot of retrofits of existing housing. So, if you’re, whether that means changing out the stove and appliances from gas electric, or whether it means outfitting, you know, upgrading the panels, or there’s a number of things that have to happen with existing, especially older stock housing, to bring it up today. And one of the individuals in the working group said, How do we make sure that landlords don’t pass these costs to the tenants? And I let it go, because we got a long ways to go. So, I’m not going to make a big stick out right now. But in my head, want to say, precisely, what methods are you thinking about here?
Bruce Norris  Yeah.
Paul Herrera  You know, what, what are you, what are you asking be done here? Because you’re, you’re imposing what is a five, maybe six figure cost on the property owner and then saying, ‘You can’t recover it, you just have to swallow.’ And, you know, I’m always a little resistant when people say, ‘Well, if you raise, you had $10,000, to this,’ to the cost producing house, that you’re going to raise the cost of house, but $10,000 because it’s not exactly true, right. Whether it’s rental, whether it’s, whether it’s ownership housing, the owner who sells or rents it is going to get whatever the market will bear.
Bruce Norris  Right. Yeah, it doesn’t matter what your, doesn’t matter what something cost you.
Paul Herrera  Yeah, if they, if they thought they would get a lot higher rents, and they put a much more money into it. And at the end, it’s lower than they thought, tough. They’re gonna have to swallow that.
Bruce Norris  Yeah. And you know, what, what you just stated is true with green improvements. So, people want them.
Paul Herrera  Yeah.
Bruce Norris  But won’t pay a dime for them.
Paul Herrera  Right. What happens is that you raise the floor at which the housing is even feasible to be built.
Bruce Norris  Correct. That’s right.
Paul Herrera  To the point that moderate income to even above moderate income housing just can’t be built. It doesn’t exist at all. So, your starting price point, you know, you end up with a $550,000 single family, a single bedroom, you know, shelter.
Bruce Norris  Right.
Paul Herrera  And cost, where it could be significantly lower than that. If you didn’t have all these other mandates that were part of the process.
Bruce Norris  Paul, I’ve enjoyed batting it around with you once again, is there anything urgent that my investors need to know that’s, going to go next couple of days?
Paul Herrera  Well, you know, at the federal level, I’m sure they’re following the Infrastructure Bill, and the ways that the federal government’s looking to fund a potential $3.5 trillion spending package, because that pay for includes provisions to cap or eliminate 1031 exchanges , to cap or eliminates step of basis, to cap or eliminate, or I mean, I’m sorry, to, to double capital gains taxes by making them ordinary income. We actually feel really good about where we are on that, on that proposal. That I don’t think it’s going to pass with any of those provisions intact.
Bruce Norris  Well, what’s interesting is so, you’ve had, there has been times in our history where capital gains is, was equal to the highest level of tax. It didn’t raise more revenue, people just didn’t sell their stuff.
Paul Herrera  Right. Which is what, yeah, you know, 1031exchanges…
Bruce Norris  If you do, if you do away with 1031 exchanges, okay, the apartment owner is going to go. ‘Alright, well, nevermind. I’ll just give it.’
Paul Herrera  Yeah, yeah. As an example, you know, the meetings we’ve had about these issues among California lawmakers have been particularly productive, because this state is more impacted, you know, that say, Indiana, right? Are the amount of, of housing increase in value?
Bruce Norris  Yeah.
Paul Herrera  Would, would lock inventory off the marketplace. If suddenly you had to realize all those gains when you decided to sell the eight unit complex, because you wanted to trade it in for something else. You just would stop that process, as you just mentioned.
Bruce Norris  Absolutely.
Paul Herrera  The capital gains issue…
Bruce Norris  …would hurt the realtor and all those industries.
Paul Herrera  Yeah. Title industries, the inspectors, contractors that get involved in renovating properties as they turn over. You know, we found that out if you have this figure 1031 exchanges, 40% of the 1031 exchanges in the country happened in California. You know, this is where those lives.
Bruce Norris  Do they…now that it’s where they originate, do they buy something in the state or out of state? I’m just curious.
Paul Herrera  Where are they? So, they’re involved in California real estate. So 40%…
Bruce Norris  Okay, right. The sellers…
Paul Herrera  In or out.
Bruce Norris  In or out? Okay. Oh, In or out. Okay. 40%. Wow, that’s a big number.
Paul Herrera  Yeah, they’re either selling things out of California, in order to buy, like, as I’m sure you did, you know, looking to invest in Florida and other places. Or maybe they’re selling out other places coming into California, or they’re within the state. But 40%, of, of the of the 1031 exchanges done nationally, are connected to California real estate, which means they’re connected to California real estate professionals. So, we’re counting on having a handful of California lawmakers stay with us on this bill and they have I’ve had great discussions with members of Congress, in which I feel that we’re not going to see 1031 exchanges go anywhere.
Bruce Norris  Are they bringing up a wealth tax for the state of California anymore?
Paul Herrera  At the state level?
Bruce Norris  Yes.
Paul Herrera  There’s nothing in legislation that’s gonna pass right now. Not while the governor is facing recall, in seven days. In two weeks, I don’t know. But not the next seven days.
Bruce Norris  Okay. Well, I mean, that was on the docket a year ago, right?
Paul Herrera  Yeah. Well, it’s a big deal. I mean, when you talk, again, we talked to the especially the young staffs of lawmakers, young, eager, well, meaning staff, lawmakers, they look at wealth inequality, which is an issue and say, how do we use government to fix this? Which basically means how do we take the money from those who have it given to those don’t?
Bruce Norris  Yeah, who are already paying, you know, one half of percent of the households paid 42% of California stab.
Paul Herrera  Right.
Bruce Norris  And the largest number of billionaires exist in California. So, you got 160 some billionaires, California, that’s going to say you’re going to tax my wealth every year? I got some options here.
Paul Herrera  Yeah. It’s why California has a massive budget surplus. You know, when COVID started, they projected about a $58 billion budget deficit on a $230 billion budget.
Bruce Norris  Yeah.
Paul Herrera  And when the math all added up, the state ended up with about a $78 billion surplus, more money they can actually legally keep, because the bills are paid for by those who have stuff, right. And assets did very, very well during COVID, which is a source of consternation, you know, when some people did very, very well during COVID. And people who sell their labor for a living, you know, didn’t do quite as well. But, you know, it’s, it’s, it is a challenge we have to face.
Bruce Norris  Joey, did you have anything you want to ask?
Joey Romero  Well, I just had a thought, you know, 40% of the the 1030 ones in California? Well, you have to leave something that’s more valuable, so that you don’t pay taxes. So, that probably why California is leading the way in 1030 ones, right.
Paul Herrera Right. I mean, if you’re, you know, if your mom and dad, you know, got a portfolio of three or four houses in Orange County in 1975, that became rentals over the years that they bought for $100,000 each and, you know, now they’re about 1.5 million a piece. You know, that’s a story. That’s not that unusual. You know, even if you have one or two rentals and Alameda that was, you know, working class neighborhood where you can buy something for $75,000 40 years ago. And now, if you burn the house down, it’s 1.2 million. That’s something that happens a lot in the state. You know, the rust bill doesn’t have the same level, you know, as a, as a for instance. So, if you don’t have 1031 exchanges in California, you’re not going to transfer those assets.
Bruce Norris  No.
Paul Herrera  You’re looking at a tax and especially if the capital gains tax now.
Bruce Norris  Good luck with the last few days of the legislation.
Joey Romero  And look for the Norris Group. Our new company is going to be retro gas to electric in the future.
Bruce Norris  That’ll be a side business.
Paul Herrera  It’s, it’s coming quick, faster, you would imagine.Bruce Norris  Paul, have a great day.
Joey Romero  Thanks Paul.
Paul Herrera  All right. Thanks, Bruce. Thanks Joey.
Narrator  See ISurvivedRealEstate.com for event details, information on all our generous sponsors and to connect with our speakers. For more information on hard money, loans and upcoming events with The Norris Group, check out thenorrisgroup.com. For information on passive investing with trust deeds, visit tngtrustdeeds.com.
Aaron Norris  The Norris Group originates and services loans in California and Florida under California DRE License 01219911, Florida Mortgage Lender License 1577, and NMLS License 1623669. For more information on hard money lending, go www.thenorrisgroup.com and click the Hard Money tab.