Aaron Norris is joined this week by Andrea Van Soest for The Norris Group’s 600th radio show. This is 250 hours of real estate content and 10 years on the radio show. Andrea is a flipper, realtor, and designer. She adds the design eye to the husband-wife team at So Cal Homebuyers, which she co-owns and runs with her husband Doug. He was on the show the last two weeks talking about their journey, getting started in entrepreneurship, and how they went from kettle corn to flipping. Today, they will discuss design and style. Andrea studied interior design at UCLA and UC Riverside and has a background in industrial-organizational psychology. She and her husband have flipped hundreds of properties, and they also buy rentals.
Episode Highlights
- How did she first come into the interior design business and decide to make this her focus?
- What has been the reaction from people who see her and Doug’s work for the first time?
- Does she always approach a house with the thought in mind of how she can make it special?
- What is the biggest mistake she has seen investors make when wanting to do their own design work?
- What types of finishes does she like the most and thinks are unique?
- Where does Andrea go to get the items she needs and at good discounts?
- How can you see some of her amazing work?
Episode Notes
Aaron made a joke on the last show about how HGTV ruined his flip, and he did not think he would be interviewing about it so soon. He grew up in the 80s doing flips with his dad Bruce, and he can still see the color palette or the lack thereof on all the things they used to do together. There were all white walls, no two-tone, and outside was white with a medium blue trim. It did not matter what style it was, he just knew what was going to be there. Every house also had the same linoleum and carpet.
Aaron began by asking Andrea how important design is in today’s market on a scale of 1 to 10. She said to her it is important, but because she loves it. In general, she puts it at about 7 or 8. Aaron wondered if it has changed over the past decade, which she said it has. It goes with the cycle that there are times you do not need to do it as much and it is not as important, then there are times you need to do a little bit more to get the value for which you are hoping. Today, with HGTV, the buyers are more educated and sophisticated and know the different styles out there. Therefore, it is important to appeal to that.
Aaron agreed and mentioned how he had interviewed the shared housing creator Common. It is not shelter anymore, it is a lifestyle. Aaron follows her work on Instagram, and he could not tell at first if it was her work or she was using it as Pinterest. The photos are beautiful and show how great an eye she has. Aaron asked her how she first came into the interior design focus. She said she has loved design for as long as she can remember and has always had a really strong appreciation for a well-assembled taste. She was only in fifth grade when she started asking for décor items for her bedroom. Andrea was actually inspired by DJ Tanner’s bedroom on Full House as she thought it was so cool and wanted everything she had in her room. This was the first time she remembered really being tuned in to how to make a room stick out and all the features you can add.
When she went to college, the school she chose did not have design as a major. It was when she and Doug were on their entrepreneurial journey she realized a big part of the allure for getting into real estate was the design side of flipping. This allowed her the opportunity to flex that creativity she had always wanted to use. A few years into this, she was able to go back to school and start taking the classes she wanted. She always had an eye for it, but she wanted to learn the technical skills behind it. She learned everything from Auto Cad to the history of architecture, and this really helped round out her education and skills. She has had fun drawing up plans.
When it came to doing flips, Aaron looked at the formula his brother did and saw how he basically had four or five different templates depending on the house. It made it easy for the contractors they were working with to see the pallets needed. It was definitely elevated a lot from what they did in the 80s, but it matched the style of the house and felt very appropriate. Aaron asked Andrea if there was somebody during the last cycle who she thought their design really needed to push the edge when it was a buyer or seller market. Aaron wondered if this switch happened for her and Doug. She said yes and that there are times you can clean something up, put it out there, and it doesn’t really matter. Then, there are other times it does matter if you want it to stand out. They have often had these templated, formulaic design methods as well and still do it a little today. There are those certain properties that feel unique and special. The more she learned about design, the more she cared about it and chose to make her projects more special.
When Aaron lived in New York, he worked for a mid-century antique store. He fell in love with design as well and got introduced to a lot of furniture art, art glass, and lighting. He was fascinated by it and had no idea it could get so expensive as well. Later, when he worked in Downtown LA doing construction and high-end architectural lighting design, he saw how there are so many layers you can put on. Doug and Andrea are best known for working in the Inland Empire and flipping the script of it being the mid-range or lower first-time buyer. This makes it more special since some buyers are coming into housing and planning to be there a lot longer than they may have originally intended.
Aaron asked what the reaction has been from people who go into these first-time buyer neighborhoods she and Doug work in and put something out they are not expecting. She said the reaction has been unbelievable. They recently did a home in Lake Elsinore in a neighborhood you would never feel like needed to be upgraded in that particular area. It was a small property and therefore did not cost a whole lot extra. It just took a little extra detail, time, and thought on Andrea’s part. They were offered $30,000 over their asking price, showing it can have a substantial impact.
Aaron next asked if it has to cost a lot more, especially for investors who typically lean towards the first-time buyer end of the market in this cycle. Andrea said lighting can go a long way. There are so many things available now that look great and don’t cost as much as you might think. You can also have tile that looks a little more custom as well as hardware. Good staging goes a long way. Andrea did an upgraded faucet herself. The extra elements did not really cost her a whole lot more, but when people walked in they felt like they connected with the sink and wanted to live there. They had multiple offers all over asking price. The kitchen being so special gave it that edge. When people are going around looking at 10-12 homes; if you can do something unique and special that feels cohesive and different from other properties and helps it stand out in their mind, it can justify the need for them to pay a little bit more.
Aaron asked about when she finds a house and if she approaches it with the thought of what she can do to make it special. He also wondered how she chooses which room to have her focus. She said it depends house to house. Typically, she will focus on the kitchen or possibly master bathroom. It depends on what is there. Typically they have a formula; but for the ones which she chooses to go above and beyond, it depends on what is there and what she can work with. Sometimes if you can release an element of character that was already there, it adds a special feel to it. This was actually what she did in the Lake Elsinore house. They left the pantry in the original wood finish that it was. Then, they surrounded it with cabinets, and it made it feel brand new but also had a rich character to it. She just takes each house with its own, unique approach.
Aaron said he loves history, having lived in old parts of New York. Some places had been there over 100 years, and it was fun to live there. The kitchen Andrea had worked on one that had a medium wood finish on the pantry. Aaron said in the last flip he did, he spent double. This is why he is buy and hold guy since he always overspends. If it needs new windows or needs to scrape the popcorn ceilings, he won’t hesitate to do it. Once you start down the path, there is always the fear that there is always something that needs replacing.
Aaron asked Andrea if she did anything to the pantry, whether cleaning it up or refinishing it. Andrea said she just cleaned it up and touched up the stains in some areas to make it not feel like they just left an ugly, old thing. She wanted it to feel purposeful and repolished. Some people do tend to want to go overboard, and it is okay to leave people a project to do. There could be a special area of the house they want to work on another not so much, like the backyard.
On the property Andrea recently worked on, for $500 she added new tile and lighting in the kitchen as wells as hardware. She did a cool light fixture that hung above the sink and was different and unexpected. She also had a back splash that felt unique. It was a small kitchen, so it did not require a whole lot. There are great sources for this now, like the big box stores where you can find different and unique things for a price that fits an investor budget. Aaron asked her where she finds these things, which she said one big one is Wayfair.
Aaron wondered if she had a discount with them, which she said she did but they were also pretty generous. If you are a flipper or buying in any kind of quantity they will give you that professional discount. This is such a great and unique place to find interesting vanities and lighting, all the things that used to be only to the trade for designers. Now, everybody has access to this through Wayfair. Aaron has furnished entire apartments with Wayfair. He was surprised he has been able to find what he has. Not all of it is the greatest quality, but for staging it has been awesome. Best of all, they deliver it to you. Andrea has been very impressed with this along with their return policy.
Aaron asked what the biggest mistakes are that she sees investors make. Andrea said with regard to design, it would be going into a Lowes or Home Depot and choosing all the pretty things without a plan. Overall, not having a plan is the biggest mistake she has seen people make. This is why templates are so easy. You know what you like and what looks good. You can still do the big box items that are fairly standard. You know what looks good, and you can take a chance on something like a backsplash. Aaron wasn’t even sure he would trust himself to do something very special.
Aaron asked if there are any finishes lately that she likes and thinks are unique. Andrea said gold and brass have been back for a little while now. She also said putting it against the grays and whites adds a really pretty color. She really likes matte black since it is industrial for the modern look. Other finishes have never gone out of style, but the black and gold are really fun right now. Aaron asked if this applies to appliances, which she said it mostly applies to faucets and hardware finishes. Aaron was surprised there was such a thing as matte black.
Andrea said she has also utilized Amazon for faucets and lighting. It is unbelievable what you can find online these days, and it shows up right to your door. This makes it really easy to create a space that looks like so much thought went into it. Andrea loves doing this so much that she launched her own design firm. She loves doing projects and takes on client work selectively based on projects or people. She feels very fortunate to do her own projects. She is getting into vacation rentals, which can really give people the experience they want. One is being done up in the mountains in Idyllwild, another in Old Town Murrieta, and another coming up in Joshua Tree.
With the last vacation rental Aaron said he saw done in Palm Springs, they tried. He was amused because it was probably a $750,000 house, and they had gone in and painted the master bathroom. It was strange. Aaron asked Andrea if she did more owner-occupied design or worked more with investors. She said she has done a little of both. She has worked with investors to help them choose their template. She has done the same with homeowners and helped them with renovation. She doesn’t even really market herself; people have found her through Instagram. Doug mentioned how she is so popular that manufacturers have wanted her to work with them. Aaron asked if she is a sponsored brand now. She said not necessarily, but she has gotten some things for free in exchange for their use of the photos. These definitely help elevate the project. Free is the right price.
Aaron asked who she likes working with more: investors or owner-occupants. Andrea said they both have their own positives. A lot of the time she likes working with the investor since they really trust and don’t really care how it looks. With a homeowner, it is more of a collaboration since they know exactly what they want. You have to work through that and earn their trust with regards to what you are suggesting. Something really cool can come out of the collaboration between what she is suggesting and what they really want as it turns into this interesting and unique thing that they wanted from the beginning. Each have their own interesting and unique thing about them.
Aaron said when it comes to design, he knows he would have a hard time working with somebody who had something so far different. It is hard to layer your ascetic onto somebody else. Aaron asked Andrea how she does it when she approaches it. She said the neat thing about Instagram is people find her because they like the style she is putting out there. If somebody were to come to her wanting a chuck skin vibe, she would politely let them know she is not their girl for this. However, she will happily refer you to somebody else. She tried to stick with her own style that she wants to put out there.
Right now, she and Doug have not really gotten into adding square footage. They work with what is there. They had done it in the past, but with the time it adds and the headaches it came with, it was not something they really wanted to do. They have not had projects come along that necessarily needed that, so they are sticking with their sweet spot of working on what is there. They might change things with the walls on the inside or figure out a better layout, but they are not really adding square footage right now.
On the last project Aaron did, he was calling in favors and making neighbors mad because they were cutting tile at 8:00 at night. Depending on how special you are trying to make it, sometimes it can be hard, especially for contractors if it is a weird product with which they are not used to working. The things Andrea focuses on are not that difficult to install, it’s just ascetically different. Sometimes you have to convince the contractor, and she is learning to not worry if they look at her sideways. Just because they have not done it before does not mean it is wrong or will not look right. This is why Auto Cad and the drawings are so important; you can spell out for them exactly what they are wanting.
Sometimes they do look at her funny and are confused by what she plans to do. However, if she has an idea and trusts it, then she will tell them it’s what they are going to do. Andrea has run into this when dealing with tile layout. She is working on a project in Palm Springs right now that will be finished in a few months. In this project, the tile layout is intended to get them wondering if it is correct, which it is. Aaron has definitely gotten pushback himself, but it is usually over the popcorn ceilings.
Aaron asked Andrea will continue since we are in a market cycle that is hot and there is low inventory. Andrea said it will only be for the projects that have a specific or unique style. There are certain ones that speak to her and she is excited about, and sometimes she will have to beg Doug not to tell it to a wholesaler who really wants to renovate it. She does feel like if the market is picking up and there is low inventory, it is probably not as necessary. There are a lot of constraint templated homes right now as well.
Bruce had asked Doug on the last interview if he ever saw himself building. Andrea was listening in her car and hoping he would say yes, and he said possibly. With Andrea’s design work, she and Doug could make some beautiful things together. Andrea probably drives by her products and is proud of the work she has produced. There is something special about this. Aaron still drives by houses his dad flipped 30 years ago, and he remembers the experience and how much they cleaned it up.
If you want to check out Andrea’s amazing work, you can find her on Instagram at vantagedesignstudio or her website at www.VantageDesignStudio.com.
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